Youth Ministry Tips

While I really, really agree with what you’re saying that most youth pastors need to put more into their marriage and the steps you have laid out to help your marriage, I disagree with the statement.

Marriage is not a *higher* calling. It’s just a different calling, and one that can work well along side of whatever your main ministry is as you have pointed out. It absolutely is not something that should be neglected, but I do think that anything can become an idol and take precedence over God, even your marriage.

Some food for thought: I don’t want to insinuate too much out of this passage, but Jesus in the parable of the banquet (Luke 14) quotes a man who says “I have married a wife and can not come” .. And Paul says in 1 Cor 9 “all for the sake of the gospel” .. all things to all men, the gospel before anything.

Now obviously they are not saying we all should neglect our wives and families, obviously ending up a divorced pastor is a hindrance to your ministry. But, I really believe there is no higher calling then the spread of the gospel (the love of Christ) whether we are “pastors”, “missionaries” or not. I believe if we are truly putting “ministry” first and the spread of the gospel, the rest will fall into place.

I need to further explain that though.

First off, by “ministry” I mean the 2 golden rules: love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength; and love your neighbor as yourself, and by following the great commission of making disciples.

It’s the how we do this that I think detracts so much from our ministry as youth workers.

I think most of us in ministry need to sit down and ask ourselves some tough questions. We *have* to be at least *willing* to sacrifice whatever it is that needs to be sacrificed for the sake of the gospel. I don’t think we really get that in North America, because I would probably venture to guess that in most of our cases it’s not our families that need some sacrifice of our time (as is the point of this post), but rather, the time we spend doing relatively meaningless stuff NOT spreading the gospel.

I am going to venture to guess that most of us spend at least a few hours a week doing stuff that we “enjoy” and feel that we have a right to. Movies, fishing, golfing, video games, etc.. How about starting with that stuff and spending more time enjoying your families? Of course, you work hard and deserve some time off right? maybe it’s true, we do. Christian Hedonism is at it’s peak in North America. Ask the Christians in China and India and many other places around the world if they feel they have a God given right to play xbox in their downtime. No. When they aren’t trying to feed their families, share their faith with others or spend time with their familes, most of their down time is spent in the Word, or sleeping.. We are way too affluent for our own good.

But, in that context, I understand, we do ministry. So, I am guilty of what I preach against. And I don’t usually feel much guilt about indulging an hour here or there. But there is always room for improvement.

But seriously, if you need to spend more time with your family and particularly your wife, axe this other stuff first, not your ministry and work.

And when it comes to “ministry” as a vocation, do we really think that spending 2 hours a day in facebook is improving our relationships with our youth? Or playing Xbox with the guys a couple times a week, or whatever frivolous stuff it is that gets in the way of real ministry. Why not include your students in a family event, and give your attention to your family, but just include them (ie: taking your family to the beach or something bringing a couple students.. just relaxing with a couple students kicking around, they probably will even play with your blood kids if you have any, or at least for the most part entertain themselves leaving you to spend time with your wife foremost but feel like you are including them… stuff like that).

I am not saying that frivolous stuff is bad, of course not, but I know I have had to seriously cut back the amount of time I spend doing that stuff, and now spend more time with God first and my family second, and I have seen my relationships with God foremost, my family second, and my students third flourish as a result. Kids don’t need us to play xbox with them to respect us and learn from us. Interestingly enough, I have found cutting out the things that *I* really enjoy doing, I am finding I enjoy a lot more of what I am doing with other people.

Ministry and time for family (yes, i would say your family is a ministry as well, but for the sake of differentiation..) is incredibly important and really, I agree with you and everything you said except that it’s “higher” .. I know I’m probably getting hung up on one word and I don’t want to negate the points, but, my concern by placing it “higher” is that what if one day you are asked to lay down your life for the gospel, or even something far less extreme. Will thoughts of your spouse or family get in the way? I think most of us would say no, it wouldn’t. But, by placing even your wife “higher” then your ministry and calling I just see some risk.

Had you said that it is just as an important calling as whatever it is your ministry is, I would not have responded thinking this was a perfect post.

I did really like the point about “if you are called to marriage” .. it recognizes that not everyone should get married (as Paul puts, dedicating themselves in entirety to the spread of the Gospel, but it is a hard teaching that few can accept or follow). Especially if you are in vocational ministry, you should be sure you are ready to place that calling of marriage above all your own selfish desires. If you value that free downtime for watching movies or playing xbox so much, then don’t get married! Life is too short and too busy already, you only have time for so much.

The way I see it, work and family time is a man’s greatest challenge to balance, and most spend a lifetime figuring that out. I know too many people who wish they had spent more time and energy on their family. I agree with the post, the older wiser people I know will always tell you it is always better to spend more time with the wife and family. You won’t have any regrets that way. But just be careful to balance everything out with it.

Your ministry, and the spread of the Gospel is the most important work in the world. But your family should be just as important to you.

Anyways, if you actually read this whole response, kudos. I tend to ramble a bit (which is why I don’t preach). Sorry. I just have a very big passion for both ministry and marriage. I desperately want to see married couples succeed, starting with those in ministry, but I just have an issue with putting our family ahead of the gospel. I mean, even secularly, we started putting our kids before our spouses as a culture, and look what’s happened? 50%+broken homes, and spoiled kids who try and sue their parents. The unity within the family has completely broken down (which is also I think a major point of the poster - building a unity that can’t be overcome into your marriage).

All good stuff. Anyways, I wish that 1000 people would respond to this thread. I would love to hear what other people’s experience being married and in ministry has been like.

Grace and Peace,
Ryan

By Ryan on May 31, 2008

Ryan, thank you for taking the time to jump all over us! No seriously, you provide a great argument and I hope it spurs 1000 responses as well.

I agree with you that it’s a delicate balance. And I agree that being a husband/father is an equal calling to being in ministry. Both are high callings.

At the same time, many in youth ministry are chronic workaholics. Because their job is unmeasurable… they don’t know when to quit. Time management and priority/goal setting are near and dear to our hearts because we recognize (like you do) that longevity in ministry is based as much on managing our home to a measure which is pleasing to our Lord.

I do want to push back about your statement that relational things are not as “productive” as other types of ministry. I just don’t buy that. After doing student ministry for a decade… I know that those soft moments are often where the good stuff happens. It’s where students get to see that I don’t just talk a good game… I live a good game according to what the Bible instructs me to do.

By the tipster on May 31, 2008

@ Ryan: In Genesis 1 and 2, our relationship with God comes first and our relationship with our wife is second. Everything else comes after that. God created woman for man, not ministry for man. Ministry and marriage are not equal callings. If you’re forced to choose between your marriage or your ministry, you’d better choose your marriage. On your wedding day you vowed that she would be your primary “ministry.” Hopefully you never made a greater vow to your vocational ministry.

By Tim on May 31, 2008

I guess I’ve been thinking really outside the box lately. Maybe I’ve been discouraged, or feel disillusioned, maybe cynical, or maybe there is something to my thoughts, but these are my responses:

Tipster: First off, so … we are getting paid (and I am talking to paid youth workers) to do relational things like “be a good Christian” while we play xbox (using that as an example, not meaning to pick on it) with our youth? That sounds like what every one who calls them self a Christian should be striving to do all the time? I’m not saying I disagree with the statement (in fact, I actually never said that, what I was calling into question was actually whether those things listed were in fact actually really relational and creating a real depth, but I didn’t explain that very well) - but I agree, relational examples are what help the younger ones learn best, but I am increasingly disagreeing with these frivolous things that we as paid workers use in qualifying half of what we do as “work”, not in their effectiveness, but in that we are “paid” to do them. This seems ridiculous to me. Too much lately I am feeling like “I am getting paid to be a buddy Christian”.

I’ve been realizing this over the last couple years and have made some amazing changes. First off, I see to it that all my youth leaders are the ones being the good “buddy” Christians. They get to be the good examples throughout the week while playing xbox and stuff. I don’t have time to do that with all the kids, but they do. I participate where I can find a free hour or two, there is no obligation. But, whenever I am with my youth, they have my 100% attention and they all respect and look up to me and know that I am for 100% for them. But they also know I am not there to be their buddy. And they do come to me to hear the honest truth and seek Godly advice. That’s what I am there for.

The relational stuff that my youth leaders do is probably more important then how I get to input into my youth’s lives. I in turn pour into my youth leaders and equip them so they can be those good examples. I have almost entirely freed up my schedule of xbox and facebook, and it has not hindered my ministry. In fact, I think it has flourished. Almost my entire schedule is spent: meeting with both youth and youth leaders encouraging them, praying with them, counseling them, and most importantly listening to them; preparing the studies and outreaches; and most importantly, seeking God and his direction for out group and church. It’s allowed me to cut down a lot of hours, manage them better, and not feel I am failing when I don’t get to “spend time with the youth”.

I may really enjoy playing xbox with my youth. I may really enjoy using facebook. I may really miss “hanging out with the kids”. But all that is moot when compared to the fact that as a result of the work God is doing through me, they are flourishing in their faith. I don’t want to ever think that their faith rests on my relational ministry to them. I will not. That’s too much pressure on me.

Wow, I’m not even done, but that’s a huge digression and probably could take up it’s own thread.

I do want to say tipster, in response to the workaholic part, I understand what you are saying and I know it’s true for most youth pastors in some form. To be honest though, I’ve really had to be honest with myself. I’ve always called myself a workaholic, and I always answer the question how I am doing with “busy” or even “insanely busy”, and the truth is that I keep myself busy - I like being busy, I pride myself on being busy. Lately though, I’ve had to be honest with myself and say most of that is is selfish “busy-ness”.

I’m so “busy” and “tired” largely out of choice because I feel I deserve some “recreation” and I don’t rest properly. Recreation and self-indulgence (music, msn, sports - both playing and watching, LOST! and movies) caters more to my “busy”-ness then anything else. I’m talking those hours when the kids are in bed or whenever we happen to find them. I’m not saying they are wrong, just that for a long time I felt “I deserve” them or whatever .. maybe I’m the only youth pastor with a family that still finds time for that stuff then? I don’t know. I just find that I’ve really been cutting that stuff out and simplifying my life. I am learning to enjoy things like my family, sleep, slow quiet walks with God. Getting rid of a lot of the noise. Combine that with the stuff I talked about above about what I consider to be “work”, and the impact that has had on my hours at the office, and life is a lot more laid back. And it is good. As a result I’ve had more time for both my family and my real ministry with, well, whoever God leads my way - which probably happens not to be my vocational ministry of “youth ministry”.

Wow .. that’s a confusing statement I just made. I guess I am formulating this thought process as I write and as a result of much thinking over the last few months that maybe what I consider to be my vocational ministry, though necessary, isn’t really what I consider real “ministry” at all. Maybe it’s not, but my vocational part needs to be done, and we all need to pay the bills.

Anyways, just to clarify, I have a tremendous passion for my youth. I long to spend more time with them. I have to constantly remind myself that everything I do is for them. Larger then that though, I have a deep desire to see the Church become more inter-generational, to see the Christian family unit whole and functioning properly, to see Christians pouring into each other’s lives providing depth, to see real community, and to see real outreach happen as a result of Christians “just living and being”.

Did I mention I’m an idealist?

By Ryan on Jun 1, 2008

But enough digression, back to the thread topic at hand:

Tim. That’s a shaky argument.

I want to say before I start that this is not theology I like talking about as I do not wish to diminish how important our spouses are to us … but … also, I’m having some trouble being consistent in my own response writing differentiating between “working”, “jobs”, “vocational ministry”, and “ministry” … so bare with and try and understand the context surrounding the word in question.

First off, I’m sorry, but where specifically does it say that our wives are second after God? Technically, in chapter 2, before God created woman for man, God told Adam to “take care of the garden” - to be it’s steward, to name the animals, to work. Then God saw that man couldn’t handle it alone, that man needed a mate and a helper, so he created woman. And as a team, they rocked it up together, until of course they ate of the fruit. Also, the second greatest command according to Jesus, quoted from Leviticus, is “Love your neighbor as yourself”, which of course would include your wife, but by no means singles her out.

Secondly, if I was “forced” to choose between my marriage and my “vocational” ministry, of course I would choose my marriage. But if I were forced to choose between my marriage and *ministry* it would be God choosing me to force that, and of course I would choose *ministry*. I think though that we all know we are talking about vocational ministry though, and falling back on my first rebuttal I think this is a moot point in the first place Tim. I don’t think you can argue that God says your wife is second. God didn’t create man and woman in the same thought. It was after he was told to work.

And technically, while we all vow to put our spouses before all else, etc, we also vow to take care of them, and if we don’t pay the bills and provide food, we are not taking care of them. Thus, work is just as important as the marriage itself. If a man will not work, he will not eat.

However, I do not think that either is more important then the other because God saw that man couldn’t handle the work alone and created a most excellent and awesome helper (without whom, most of us men couldn’t function). Thus, I don’t think God would ever force us to choose between working on the whole and our marriages. It is WE who choose, and a healthy balance between the two can be achieved. I think that is why I so agreed with the initial thread and the practical ways laid out on how to help balance your marriage with your work! It IS important to balance.

When it comes down to it, do I love my wife more then my “job” of vocational ministry? Of course! She meets several aspects of love that my “work” will never fulfill. Is she the center of my life after God? Of course! That’s why I married her - I need her more then I need air. Could I spend more time with her? Absolutely, for sure, without a doubt! - but then the bills wouldn’t get paid. Or in the case of us as vocational youth ministry workers whose bills are rarely paid anyways, the “work” God has called us to wouldn’t get done.

I mean, think about it … Is it possible for true love and marriages to succeed in the case of a soldier serving overseas for several years straight? Of course. Is he not serving for several reasons, to serve his country, to pay the bills, and more importantly - to protect his wife? Everything he does is for her (and possibly country!)

I again come back to my entire point that merited a response to the thread - the fact that I do not believe that either is “more important” then the other. If you choose to undertake both, then you better be willing to learn to balance the two.

I’m not saying I have it all figured out or by any means am anywhere near perfect, but I just see a real danger in prioritizing like that.

Thus Tim, I am sorry, but I disagree.

My wife *knows* that I love her FAR more then I love any other human, but she and I both know that she is going to Heaven and there are hundreds of millions of people out there who aren’t, and that their salvation is more important then whether or not we get to go on a date this week.

Where do we get off being so affluent and selfish?

By Ryan on Jun 1, 2008

to clarify something quick:

“maybe what I consider to be my vocational ministry, though necessary, isn’t really what I consider real “ministry” at all. Maybe it’s not, but my vocational part needs to be done, and we all need to pay the bills.”

What I mean is not really that what I do during my week as a “pastor” isn’t “real” ministry. I said that wrong. It’s just not the frontline ministry, even the “relational ministry” (probably what I called “real ministry” in my initial reply to the thread) that I see as being such an essential part of everyone who calls themself a believer’s life. “Real” ministry is how we live our lives and who we are that plays out as the Spirit sees fit around us. I think you see this all the time in the early church.

I’m getting really tired, I hope this makes sense.

By Ryan on Jun 1, 2008